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This week a reader asks my thoughts on First date etiquette and a persons expectations in the beginning of dating. Of course I try to give my opinion on it and urge you to jump in on another Open Friday!
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Dear D,
I had a conversation the other day with a guy I know. He was ranting to me about how
when he goes on first dates a women shouldn’t order an appetizer or multiple drinks. And if she does, she should pay for it. My response was if that is something I normally do, why should I “budget” for a date with you. I should be able to be myself so there are no surprises later.
He went on to explain how he looked at first dates as an interview. He said it was “business”. He also compared it to poker, saying you never go all in on the first hand. I said we would never work…
What are your thoughts?
Your question honestly really has no concrete answer but more aligned with a person’s philosophy on life. I don’t see a problem with him wanting to have the first date be care free and just conversational. I even took some flak for saying that 1st dates should be under 40 bucks. But, let’s keep it real over blown expectations are the probably the biggest flaw us humans have. There has to be a fair balance between those expectations and reality. One has to constantly have both of those sides of the game in check. This is because we can entrap ourselves in a fantasy laden prison or a solitary confinement of reality that we can’t see anything better in people. Just like in poker or in a dice game you have to understand the cards given(reality) and understand what you want or need(expectations).
Now I will say this though I am not the kind of brotha who knows if I take a woman to a certain place I have to expect how much the tab will be. I am not going to put myself in a situation of where I am going somewhere I don’t want to be paying for. I am not one to relegate like “Ay you can only order from that side of the menu.” Then on the other hand a woman shouldn’t just be going hard on a brotha just because he is taking her out either. There should be decorum and respect on both sides. I suggest a brother be upfront about what he thinks or wants to do. A brotha can’t be taking a lady to Wolfgang Pucks and hoping she will get full on the bread. If you are comfortable with taking the woman to that place go ahead and do it but don’t expect her to act to your blueprint.
The idea of life being a Poker game does have validity to it but, not to the extent that your friend was saying. A person should be as authentically who they are so someone should know who they are. But, at the same time there has to be a respect level shown as well. For instance, if you only order the appetizers off the menu when YOU are paying for it, why should the game change-up just because YOU aren’t paying for it? What if that said man had the fanatical expectations towards you about when he was going to HIT?
The idea of balance those expectations of what you as a woman or man wants and what the reality of the situation I believe will make our choices in relationships somewhat clearer. Many times we make choices on mates and or in dating because of one of those ideals being too thrown off kilter. Someone can also look at the situations such as this as them not being on the page (which very well maybe true) because they didn’t meet our expectations or didn’t share our reality. But, how long will you let your expectations destroy your reality? How long will you let your reality destroy your expectations?
Chime in! What do you think?
Write in with ANY question for Open Friday at fromashy2classy@gmail.com
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You were being too nice t the chik who wrote this letter! I know one thing a chick gotta know she can’t be no AppleBee’s chick expecting no Maggianos or nothing. Some chicks be average thinking they dimes and some dudes be making these average chicks feel like dimes in their thirst for some twat
You sound like a plum idiot who probably has not one woman talking fooolishness like that
To Mr. Big Bank, I’d hope you knew if you were dealing with an ” Applebee’s ” chic prior to you taking her out but I digress…
I honestly agree with the lady in that if you’re used to a certain lifestyle or certain things you should be able to maintain that with someone you’re dating or date someone else . As for the poker reference, I think there are definitely strategies to dating but if you’re going to show someone who you are, do it up front and don’t try to pull a surprise visit with the real you later. That’s why people have issues now. All these representatives are showing up for first dates…
I do know I am dealing with Applebee’s chck before hand the problem is most chicks don’t know they are an Applebee’s chick which is the problem
I didn’t know what I thought when I opened this post but its very balanced and thought churning. Makes me think soem about my balance between my expectations and reality. I took a side idea when I saw your idea about 40 bucks on a date but after reading this post and that one I can see your perspective better. I don’t know about the 40 dollar date thing still but you made a great arguement in it. The balance notion between expectations and reality is spot on though! Loving your blog!
I mixed on this post. I agree with where you coming from BUT some chicks do be wilding with their expectations. I mean I have had to adjust my expectations of the pusdy as I have gotten older but most chicks haven’t adjusted theirs with age.
Woww…..this post sumthin’ serious. My take on ALL this…….if the subject of money, comes up early with a potential date (you just met)…that’s already a red flag………..a potential headache.
@Big Bank……..Thanks for keepin’ it 100 bruh…….there are some “Burger King” chicks out here pretending they’re McCormick & Schmick’s or even Morton’s….and Morton’s is right behind Ruth Chris…..take it from me boys & girls….Dating IS like a poker game……and SOME marriages are like Russian Roulette …..you CAN crap OUT!
I think the key in all this is “1st date”. As for her feeling like “she” shouldn’t have to budget on a date with “him” comes across as if their is a pre-determined area of entitlement on her part, and he’s in a priviledged situation to be able to go on the date with her?!! After going on numerous dates over the years, you’re going to recognize that it’s virual certainity that the chances are greater that you and this person won’t amount to much. So if he feels she “shouldn’t” order multiple anything (which is bascially talking about the dollar amount) then he may not feel inclined to invest in a stock that doesn’t have a good track record for returns. All in all, I believe there is a certain decorum that should be used on dates (especially 1st dates). If you went to ur significant others aunts house for a holiday dinner, you might not eat 5 chicken breasts in one sitting (even if thats what you’re used to) because you don’t want to come across as being disrespectful or greedy not knowing how they truly feel about it. If you’re hungry after one, you’d ask can you have seconds. It’s all about decorum…..
I agree with you whole heartedly oharmons2Cents! Nice family dinner reference. Truth of the matter is, as women we know that we’re not supposed to do stuff like that. Being yourself is one thing, being tactful is another. If you shouldn’t have to budget for a date, then why should the extras (appetizers and drinks) be apart of his “assumed” dating budget. It’s a maturity thing.
I’m sorry. The letter writer, and most responses lost me when he/she/they took them to a place they couldn’t afford in the first place. If you cannot afford, or think the person isn’t worth the most expensive thing on the menu, seek a different restaurant. Problem solved.
Or better yet, go to a place where it is only possible to get one type of thing (like a dessert/drink place, or a tapas bar where EVERYTHING is an appetizer). The problem here can simply be alleviated with some simple thought or a little pre-planning, and if the person isn’t even worth the thought to plan a date in which you will not be uncomfortable because of price, why are you even going out with them at all?
How can you determine if someone is worth the most expensive thing on the menu if it’s the first date? I agree with you when you say that you probably shouldn’t offer to take someone out if you don’t have the means, but you trying to get to know this person doesn’t mean you’re trying to sustain their comfort of life. If it was a guy telling me he normally gets sex on the first date I’m quickly giving him a “ninja I don’t know you.”
Apparently, your toes have been stepped on. I’ll just speak for myself. As far as affordability, there is a difference between me being WILLING to spend (on you) and being MANIPULATED by you to splurge. Here’s a piece of advice, how about you put up an online ad offering your time on an hourly basis for an affordable price….and see where that leads……..
Nevermind $40 and appetizers, dinner dates in restaurants add a layer of pressure. Wait staff interrupt the meal, other diners add to an atmosphere of judging. Restaurants are great when you already have a secret society of ‘we-two’.
Gallery visits followed by coffee, walks, pick-up picnics bike rides–these dates offer up more imagination, less stress and better talk time. Theatre or music offer good conversation points. I’d do all of those before Applebees–plus there are more creative inexpensive eateries around town.
But if Applebees is the only option, mind the saying ‘Start how you want to finish’. A woman who isn’t considerate on the first date won’t be considerate on the next dates either. Ditto for the man. If he can’t put in the effort to organize some unique get together, he probably won’t put in the effort to sustain a lively relationship either.
Start how you want to finish.
When you say “being considerate” you mean what? Why is someone ordering what they want inconsiderate? I don’t get that at all. Unless its a blatant over spending situation, if you are taking out someone you should be prepared and not hesitant to pay for the putting. To some if the other posts from the ladies. I do however think that if you have an issue that I ordered an app and a martini that you point that out at that time so I can wrap the date up early. I mean are we supposed to establish a budget at the beginning? And finally, you know it’s all about the caliber of people you’re dating. Personally I have never had an issue with someone (as far as I know) and me ordering what I want. It’s kind of Petty to me and I’d rather not deal.
Well, it’s 2012. Money is tight. Maybe you have a waiting list of millionaires wanting to take you to dinner but yeah. Ordering what you want just cause you want it, that’s called selfish. Growing up, we had ‘FHB’, family hold back from taking too much or taking the best. We were also taught never to order the most expensive thing on the menu. Unless it was Auntie and she wanted you to do that.
This reply might make you spit, but think about this: nobody wonderful wants to marry a selfish person. Wonderful men want to marry women who will love them deeply and be considerate of them at all times. And likewise. Wonderful women just will not marry selfish men. Who needs to waste their life waiting on another person’s needs?
I want to live a life, not a relationship.
You aint speaking nothing but truth playa!!
Agreed!
Dating is mos def a poker game. You decide when you’re going to bet a certain amount of chips. If the first date was a trip (being extremely hypothetical), and he’s wanting to treat me, then I can’t expect that he makes sure I get there 1st Class because thats how I normally fly (in which I don’t). Not even in my furthest imagination is an appetizer or drink 1st Class standards, but it seems pretty common sense as to “why” a guy/woman wouldn’t want to play as least chips possible before figuring out if this person is even worth the time of the game. It’s a reality that strangers treat other strangers like strangers. Whether it’s normally done or not she sounds silly if she don’t know thats not polite.
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