Men and the Madonna “HO” Complex

Last time I decided to go deep into the concept of sex and relationships things got pretty heated (peep: “Not Having Sex Before Marriage is a Setup For Failure“). This post is going to dive into the psychology of men and our ideals when it comes to sex. Have you ever heard of Sigmund Freud‘s Madonna-Whore Complex? It’s a lot of psychoanalytical babble from Freud, but let me break it down in laymen terms.

The Madonna Whore-Complex

Men classify all women into one of only two categories: either evil sexual temptress, or good and pure saint; a woman has to be one or the other. A man with a Madonna-whore complex is one who will sleep with and lust for a sexual and beautiful woman- but he will never respect her as “wife” material and he will never marry her. In his eyes, she is tainted, impure,  and unworthy of the status of wife. Still, he may have passionate and contradictory feelings for her. He may even be in love with her but will never allow himself to be with her in any real sense. He’ll look for a “good girl” to marry, usually a woman who is cold and lacking passion sexually. For example: she is good at domestic “wifely” duties: cooking, cleaning, homemaking, etc. A proper, pure “Madonna” type woman who will bear his children.

These are conflicting desires that some (but certainly not all) men have for women that are experienced in the bedroom and unashamed of showing sexual prowess (“whore”). At the same time a woman who is wholesome is clean and nurturing (“Madonna”) is not to be branded a “slut”.

The Madonna “Ho” Complex

I’d like to take this concept and develop it little further. I’ve had this discussion with many of  my homeboy’s (and acquaintances). I’ve discovered that many men don’t necessarily care for the sex or get enough sex from their wives/long-term partners. This, undoubtedly, is for a multitude of reasons. I’m actually speaking of the men who knew/know going into the marriage that sex was an issue in their relationship. Sex isn’t everything in life. But to dismiss it as a part of how we function, especially within a relationship, is neglecting the solstice of a man’s process (and some women’s). This is where I see the biggest variation of The Madonna Whore Complex (I call it the Madonna “Ho” Complex). 

A perfect example…Tiger Woods.

This country was built on a Puritanical belief system that condemned women for expressing any form of sexuality (“The Scarlett Letter,” anyone? Anyone?).   Some men say that a woman’s who’s had a lot of sexual partners shows a lack of  positive decision making skills and bad life choices…which I agree with. But, the issue I want us to all to think about is how men view a woman’s sexuality.

The dichotomy of this situation is very simple and something that really  isn’t talked about. Some men are willing to marry a woman they aren’t very sexually compatible with because she displays some form of virginal being. Either she hasn’t been with many partners or hasn’t had much sexual experience. But they get into a relationship with the woman and then are upset that she doesn’t want to be as sexually free as them.

Deep down, a lot of men have some form of what I call the Madonna Ho Complex. We expect that we should be able to sow our wild oats and bang as many chicks as possible… while the virginal or close to virginal chick waits in the wings for us to stop our imperialism on the coochie. I always ask myself and other men: If we all are out land-grabbing who do you think those women are who are being land-grabbed?

This is what I’ve heard men say:

“She was too freaky for me want to wife up…she gotta be a ho.”

“She just seemed like she was too experienced for me…she gotta be a ho.”

“She wanted too much control in the bedroom… she must be a ho.”

These same men will say they married a woman because she was “pure,” she hadn’t been with that many men, or wasn’t as sexually experienced and that he could train her to his wishes. It’s a very patriarchal process that becomes a simultaneous convulsion  for men. They will eventually come to despise her for the same reasons he married or committed to her. Then they’ll go out and get a side piece to quench their sexual desires they aren’t getting at home.  They take their sexuality to the “ho” while living the American dream with the “Madonna”. This isn’t fair to the woman or to the man –  the man maybe putting out false pretenses and she may not be built for accepting them.  One the other hand, why can’t some men look at their woman in a ultralistic sexual connotation – she is YOUR lady…wouldn’t you want her to be sexy??

I hear some married men complaining because they thought they were going to have more sex now that they were married. They get mad and project this on their wide like she’s doing something wrong (which she very well maybe). But, at the same time, you knew how she was before you got married. So why do you expect something to change JUST because of the marriage?  I’ve heard from many married couples that you marry the person for who they are standing in front of you, not for what you expect them to be just because you’re married. Its alright if you want to be with that woman, but don’t expect her to be anything more than who she is. If she decides to flip it up and get more sexual chalk it up as a plus but understand people are who they are going to be. Can you accept her either way?

Questions: Why is it that someone’s sexuality scares men but at the same time they love a woman who IS sexual? Do most men suffer from the Madonna “HO” complex?

Make sure you check out this week’s episode of the “Straight Outta Lo Cash” Radio Show. This week’s show “The Wrist Game is Real Proper” features XXL magazine’s Tef Poe.You can also subscribe to the show on I-Tunes or listen on your Android, I-Phone, I-Pad or Black berry of Stitcher Radio.

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99 responses to “Men and the Madonna “HO” Complex

  1. Plan and simple it is just something you dont do with the main chick. I aint gonna punish her and slap her with my dick cause she the one who has my kids. The side chicks have been apart of our culture. Its a aprt of natural selection!! You are either going to be wifey material or side chick material. The problem is now that the lines are getting more blurred and side chicks think they can be wives

    • But…how do you know your wife doesn’t WANT to?
      50 Shades of Grey is a bestseller in the suburbia for a reason!
      It’s amazing how much you are missing out on because your wife thinks you won’t respect her in the morning….

      • I will respect her because a whole bunch of dues aint been running up in her!! If I have to have a side chick cause she not giving me one thats cool cause she can keep my family in tact while I can skeet in the streets

        • Quality has shit to do with quantity. You could have been with only one man in the last eight years and come out a pr0n star, you could have been with 8 men in the last year and still scr3w like a dead fish. You mean to tell me you are going to take it out on the more discerning woman because she knows what she is doing and is open to suggestion and experimentation with YOU, the next man she committed to, but the chick who acts all prissy is “wife material” because she has no clue what to do so she “must be safe”? Miss me with all that.

          • And I deliberately chose not to address the STUPIDITY of a statement like “she can keep my family in tact while I can skeet in the streets”…. O_o
            #WhereTheyDoThatAt
            Exactly how are you “respecting your family & your wife” by making her chastely lay in your bed unfullfilled while you put her health at risk “skeeting in the streets” because you are too p***y to ask for what the hell you want, or indulge in what the hell she wants??

            I can’t with this, I just can’t.

            • I didn’t make the rules to this game I just play in it. If my chick don’t want to get down with me and we married I AM gonna creep. She can be cool in other areas and maybe I am pussy for not being with her when I want more poontang. But thats the nature of this beast. Who is to say she is at home waiting for me if she don’t want to do anything. Like I say cool hold down the fam and I will keep my extracurriculars on the low and outside the house

  2. I talk to a whole bunch of my friends about how we could potentially marry a “bussa” one day. Its a reality. My Christian beliefs and my “keep it 100″ beliefs are always at odds on this issue. In one words I want a Proverbs woman but the other side wants a “drop it to the flow make that a** shake” chick. BUT I’m sure that even the Proverbs chicks drop it too so I feel like I’ll be good. I think that men are hyper-sexualized and our sexual expectations are too rooted in porn to accept reality. Not saying that we can’t have awesome sexual experiences in marriage but I do feel like we have some grandiose expectations when it comes to sex. I believe an awesome sexual chemistry is possible in marriage.

    I feel that men want perfection oftentimes and it disappoints us when we have to face reality. I encourage all men to be very selective and most of all PATIENT. I believe you can attain some of these things in marriage if you selectively choose and wait patiently. Also check your real intentions. Some men get married just to smash raw

    This is coming from a single man whose patiently waiting

    Good post D

    • Daunte
      U took the words right out of my mouth. I am constantly at odds with my spiritual self. I don’t want to give a man everything and what if it doesn’t work out. I’m a firm believer in save a little something for later

      • Trying see what marriage has to be with this post. It’s not about when you give it up and your decision making process if you want to hold put on your man then thats that but don’t be surprised if you put yourself into what he said a Madonna situation

        I agree with you Dante but keep it 100 on this bruh! You know mist dudes don’t live their life by the same creed than women when it comes to that

      • Keep holding out and if he doesn’t want to wait to put that ring on you no matter how good he is to you leave him cause he not worth it!

      • Save everything you have because there are men like me who will honor you and serve God first then you before your body like the covenant says for a man to do.

        • You sound foolish as hell!!! grow some balls women aren’t the world just part of the world!!

      • As long as you are cool with him saving some other things from you too! And also while you are saving it is he suppose to be monogamous with until that point and be apart of your saving?

    • Don’t have conflict brother!! just understand that woman that is about anything will hold her sex intact till you prove yourself worthy and you can have everything you want!!

  3. Ummmm…insecurity anyone? Women have always been subjugated throughout history for fear and misunderstanding of female sexuality.

    That’s why this dichotomy exists. Males, on the other hand, are encouraged to be a “free as a bird.”

    • @Diary I do understand your point, but I don’t think that it speaks to an insecurity, just because women are made to feel that they should accept the double standard. It brings up the question “why can’t men just want to feel special/significant” because of the sexploitation he’s in with that person? Again, I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think it really speaks to him feeling bad about “self” just because he wants to have a reason to feel good about his choice. Good point though.

      • Thank for responding….

        Men (and women, yes there are women who abuse men for the same reasons), classify women into categories to suit their needs. Please now that throughout history, women have been:

        1. Property
        2. Victims

        These two simple yet potent aspects of the male psyche are in direct link as to how he views his counterpart. With the Madonna syndrome, she is a victim of sexual oppression.

        With the Ho syndrome, she is mere property to be used.

        • I agree with the hoe syndrome.. However, what I took from the article (and what alot of men I know feel is important) her oppressing herself sexually is what made her attractive enough to be wifey in the first place. Now it can be a double edged sword when you find out that it’s not going to get any better after the fact. But unless, they start making loaded dice, thats a chance that most of us are willing to take.

            • Oppression does have a negative vibe to it. I say why not supress yourself, for YOURSELF until you have a strong feeling that it’s not going to be another run of the mill ordinary, variety lover situation. So we disagree. You see it as oppression, I see it as supression.

            • I aint trying to dominate a woman. If she dont want to have sex with me its a another chick I can walys bag so she won’t feel like I am putting “dominion”over her

  4. It comes down to the fact that nobody wants to feel that the one their with isn’t being a hoe for “them” in particular. In othere words, if everybody you’ve come into contact with has seen your hoe side, then it was only a matter of “time” that it came out again, and not a matter of the heart. Thats why wifey is placed on such a high pedistal. And of course “wifey” had to learn it from somewhere, so it’s not about lireally being as fresh as a driven snow. but about how special “he” might be, vs. this is just who she is when placed in the right enviornment…. It’s about wanting to feel that you count, and your’e not just another number counted if you will. Good write!

  5. Speaking from personal experience as a woman and as someone who will soon be married I do not believe that this has to be an issue. it becomes an issue only when people still pay heed to an archaic mode of thought about female sexuality. I am and always have been a true believer in not buying the whole lot until you have tested a sample. I am extremely sexual with my man and it is part of the reason we have been able to work for so many years. But on that same note I also cook and clean and take pride in my “wifely” duties. There need not be any fear of the female sexuality. Fear only manifests itself in unhealthy tendencies.

    • And how many years is that? Woman aren’t trying to give you everything up front and still taking 5 years to marry her

      • Coming from a married woman holding out gonna make anything better or worse. Its all about how you feel not what you feel an obligation should be

      • Don’t end up playing yourself in the end. The messed up part is you will probably blame the dude for not wanting to be down with that progrm of getting him a side bustdown

  6. This is so damn interesting it’s not even funny no mo. I was ready to jump off the cliff flinging estrogen everywhere until I read the male point of view. I see both sides. Men might be missing out on one hell of a relationship filled with great sex, but if you reveal too much too soon you will be placed in a certain category of the things that a wife wouldn’t do. Or at least you wouldn’t be happy to bring this one to meet the family. I enjoyed the post.

  7. I think the article was a little harsh on the men who get married to women who haven’t fully expressed themselves sexually and think that things will change after marriage. Men who are looking for someone who is “wifey material” think it’s perfectly acceptable for a woman to hold out for the right person. The whole “why buy the cow when you’re getting the milk for free” concept comes into play and it’s reasonable to think that once you commit to marriage that she will be free to be as sexual as she wants. Men want women who are “hoes” just for them. It’s only when they are hoes for everyone that it’s an issue for men.

  8. Pingback: Do Men Care How Many Partners A Woman Has Had? « Best Date Night·

  9. You talkin some stuff that many men can’t accept bro!! This ain’t about marriage virginal living its about letting a fem be her. Either accept it for what it is or move on! Great post!!

  10. Hope about this?! All y’all mutha f*ckas are just STUPID!!!! I mean really?!!! Why chose to live a lackluster life with a prudish woman will not please you?!! That is the basis for a TERRIBLE marriage!!!! Really WTF?!!! I you chose that life then stick with that life and leave the other women ALONE!!! You selfish bastards!!!!

    • Some women just dont give it away and hold on to it till that mad who God has sent for them to marry. Why give a man anything if he hasn’t committed to you?

      • Believe that dream if you want! While you are waiting for that man that God has sent for you to marry, he is out there sowing his wild oats! You better believe he is doing it while you are “happily married” and “committed” too! Don’t be a fool!!! “Some women just dont give it away and hold on to it till that mad”… and those are the ones who are cheated on 10000000000000000000000000000000000000% of the time! Because they are BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I am not saying that you must have sex with every man but you better believe he WILL find someone better because he is BORED!!!! How old are you?

  11. Getting the reader to critically think, out loud: success!

    I have a number of pro and con debating points. For instance, because the complex seems to solely reside with the male specie, I think it is due diligence that a man (or all men) finally define what a Ho is …is it quantity – how many sexually partners a person has, quality – can a person be too good?, standard based – I slept with him because he drives a Mercedes or I slept with her because she has a fat butt …what is it? The spectrum of Madonna and whore are way to broad for this modern convoluted and didactic society.

    Another important influence is the man’s imagination versus what really is achievable. First, let me ascertain this fact – the manifestation of sex, the actual act of intercourse only comes about because the WOMAN SAYS YES; if it happens any other way, it’s called rape. Meaning, I can request sex, in a number of illustrious and creative ways, however, unless she says “yes”, my efforts are for naught. Therefore, the result of sex for the woman is a matter of selection/choice and for the man it’s a matter of communication and language. So, I am not totally convinced that this complex is a man-only complex. I believe I can safely deduce that most women do not want to be classified as a “ho” or “whore”, so it’s worth looking at why a woman would give consent to the more ho-like activities that would exclude her from being “Madonna”.

    Are men, therefore, to be blamed for letting a side chick think she is wife material – since we are categorizing women, yet have no definition for the categories used. It had to have been a man to promote the side chick, at which case, proves that a man wants their wife to do the things uncommon to the wife position i.e. a man just wants a woman to know when to be both Madonna and Whore/Ho.

    I ask, can a woman be a married ho? Can a woman who is married have “ho” sessions with her husband? By definition, I would say no. As kinky as these sessions may be, the fact that they’re performed under the relationship umbrella of marriage, how can it be considered to be anything more than husband and wife enjoying each other’s company. Wouldn’t this eradicate the need for any categorical labels? Any woman could therefore become either type – Madonna and Ho – interchangeably. Which, in turn, justifies promoting side chicks to wife status or doing ho things with the wife.

    As a man, I am almost offended that I am this simple with my categories.

    A great point made: it is women who get condemned for expressing sexuality – which I believe in part is the result of the fact that it is women who give authority/access for sex to occur. So is my condemnation or lack of a learned behavior or, because I am a man, it is instinctual that I look at Madonna’s as long-term/good and Whore’s as short-term/bad?

    I think there is a lot to say about how a person got so good at sex; the “how” matters a lot more than the “why” with sexual relations.

    I digress; my database uploads have completed.

  12. This seemingly modern problem is rooted in evolution.

    Everything but everything about sex is about Mate Retention. The choice of mate is the woman’s because she has the biggest investment at stake, nine months plus 18 years.

    However, men have plenty of panic when it comes to mate retention. Throughout human history, men have been tricked into using up their resources to provide for children who actually don’t belong to them.

    Women pretend to be ‘pure’ and men nervously select ‘pure’ wives because they don’t want to be tricked. A woman’s infidelity is invisible and that invisibility makes men really really nervous. Also, married men and women who advertise their sexuality are desperate for ego strokes. The advertising attracts ‘side’ action. Side action destabilizes the marriage. Even if you think the wifey doesn’t know, subconsciously she knows. Anger and fear are raised. Everyone in the family pays the price.

    Plus, did you see Othello in the park? Jealous men kill their wives. It’s not safe for a woman to be openly sexual. Many play coy and others subdue their natural physical feelings.

    • Actually, MEN have the biggest and greatest investment at stake: their seed. Which is why some men will NEVER understand the horrific impact and ramifications of being a dead-beat dad and absentee father; but that’s for another post. Why do you think there is such a huge demand for sperm banks? But, I digress. I also agree with the other points you mentioned, Seekette…..

      This discussion reveals just how out of control and out of order, our society has become….

      Again, Great Post Digg!

  13. This was a very honest post that takes a lot of hinest and forethought coming from a man! My husband admitted he had this issue when we got married but he broke away from it. Some men never do. You are ahead of the curve with this inner conversation you are having with yourself kudos for this write-up

  14. If a man can’t understand that sex is a covenant before God man and wife why even be dating and looking for love. It is all about giving enough because there has to be somethingspecial or different about marriage right? I get your point but I just think most men just want a virtuous woman that he can know hasn’t been around the world and back

    • Yeah one he will end up cheating on down the line, if he isn’t already doing it when you are engaged and the first year of marriage.

    • Well….if you KNOW that it’s a covenant…(and BTW…..it’s a covenant BETWEEN..husband, wife AND GOD….all 3 parties)……then you should also know there shouldn’t be any talk of holding out of anything from your man……can’t play games with this one……

  15. I dont care what this post has to say I want my woman to be virtuous and somewhat not have any sex experience. There is nothing wrong with respecting a woman for holding the cookie in. It makes so much better when I make her my wife. A man is suppose to give his woman everything and then the sex will come after he has proven his worth

    • I guess you are $hit out of luck!!! Because in the US most of the women are NOT virtuous!!!! You better go to a 3rd world country where they have arranged marriages. Even those women aren’t virtuous as they opt for anal sex!

      • Go ahead and give all your cookie away!! No real God fearing man will respect that! And all men don’t cheat! Get around some good men so you can get that wayward thinking out your brain

        • Actually I don’t give all my cookie away! You’re making an assumption so you KNOW what you look like. “Get around some good men?….No real God fearing man will respect that!” Umm well actually anyone who has an archaic thought process is NO WAY compatible with me. So I am not sure what you consider to be good and god-fearing is truly correct! I am sure you are holding up your end of the bargain with your circa 1725 thinking. By that I am saying that I am sure you feel women also fit certain roles.

          • No 1725 just I understand the true nature of a womans essence. She isn’t suppose to be going around just giving up cookie all around but saving it for her husband and the covenant of marriage. So many women have Bern mislead into a life of whoredom and ubersexual nature. You may nerd a strong God fearing man to show you how much more you are than your body

    • But….you don’t have to be with a lot of men to have “sexual experience”. What if the woman you love has only been in ONE other, LONG-term relationship, and just picked up stuff really well? You REALLY gonna toss her aside for a woman with less sexual ability, or “experience”, that’s had five one-night stands (so she wouldn’t have had a chance to ‘learn’ from anyone)?

      • Yeah a woman could be with one guy but I personally want the least as possible. All of those foreign men aren’t good for her md or spirit! I just ant my woman to have God in her life not sexually

    • No disrespect to you brotha but you sound like a sucker!! Good luck on that journey of finding chicks bodies who habent been with other women. Let a chick be freaky. I condone and promote women in commuted relationships to be open and freaky with their man if they want too

  16. This is a very interesting topic you have engaged in here. I really enjoyed the piece. Married men should not expect their wives to transform into some type of superpower figures just because they married them. Men and women need to always maintain realistic expectations for one another.

  17. Good read. I feel sad for any man living in 2012 who suffers from the Madonna “HO” complex. Why separate that sexual Goddess meeting all your needs from the woman you married? We’re hitting the nail on the head about women’s sexual oppression. That’s the BIGGEST issue! We focus so much on separating “wifey” from “HO”, we forget they should be one in the same in a monogamous, healthy relationship (as far as sexual needs are concerned). The men complaining about a lack of sex assume it’s the woman’s fault their sexual needs aren’t met. Their egos are so big, they don’t even think about WHY they haven’t tapped into their wife’s “HO-dome”. We forget about that good girl who wants it just as much as her man. She may be passive and love you so much, she’ll overlook the fact that she’s not sexually satisfied either. Doesn’t help that men put ancient labels and limitations on their wife’s ability to be the one raising your kids AND the one serving up all kinds of good stuff in the bedroom. We forget “wifey” has sex parts too and that’s their bad!

    • I agree when I got married 25 yrs ago I was the proverbial Good Girl, instead of my husban taking the disrespectful cowards way out and cheating , he patiently helped me to find my inner “HO” so to speak. Have you ever heard that old saying , Be a Lady outside the bedroom and a freak in the bedroom. there is something to that , and I have to say it is also very freeing , when I got married I thought that women weren’t supposed to want certain things from sex or wasnt supposed to have certan feelings but let me just say with the help of my husband , there are no limits in our marital bedroom and I wouldnt have it any other way . So to all of you men who responded with that lame excuse about having a chick on the side and the prim proper wife at home I say you are just giving an excuse for something that you would do no matter who you were married to.

  18. Thank you for sharing this post with me.. It actually reminds me A LOT of couples I know and have encountered. I put married men in 2 categories: Those who cheat and those waiting for the opportunity. Sad, but it’s how I feel.

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  22. Great post, Darryl! Some of these comments are a luttle frightening, as they illustrate the validity of your argument. I think it’s a shame that we haven’t “evolved” in this and other areas. Women have been encouraged to embrace their sexuality, while simultaneously being stigmatized for it. Some women enjoy sex more that others (fact), and if you enjoy something, you will most likely be good at it. It really has no bearing on moral character: the girl who’s good in bed may be the most loyal you’ve met, and the girl who has no interest in sex may have ulterior motives… Preconceived notions are unfortunate, because they don’t apply across the board.

    • I enjoy your response; you make a valid point which almost has me convinced. However, you don’t believe the “how” matters more than the “why” a person gets good at sex? “…if you enjoy something, you will most likely be good at it…”, I genuinely agree, but I think of an athlete in this scenario. Where the athlete enjoys the sport s/he plays which is WHY they play the sport. But in looking at HOW they got good at it, they could’ve been using steroids or enhancement drugs to make them faster and stronger; the HOW reveals a persons character much more than WHY which can explain a persons passion towards something they are involved in. So I think it does bear on a persons moral character to answer HOW they got so good …it also bears on a persons character to have no need to ask.
      To bring it back to the relationships, to have had a significant amount of sexual encounters and still

  23. Fact: men who consciously choose asexual women as their wives are a) insecure about their sexual prowess and b) probably asexual.

    The myth is a myth. Hopefully the writer jests when he states that it’s a firm belief in the male community. If that’s the case, then I’d look for the political propaganda that emasculated those men; ie you’ve been manipulated fellas. Again.

    • So if a guy wants a woman that doesn’t project an image of sexuality, then he’s not secure in himself? Where’s the fact in that? Some words are thrown around with no real backing. “Insecure” is amongst the top.

      • Sorry insecure is reality. It’s not just being thrown around on this topic. No one is saying wife up the city hoe! People are just saying that is stupid for a man to determine his wife on her capabilities. If this is what is he is doing then he is in fact insecure! Just because a woman is experienced does not mean she is have sex with every Tom, Dick and Harry. As someone stated above she may have been in a LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIP. You know those do exist, right? Well when a person is in one of those type of relationships they do have intercourse. So is she a hoe because she gain her experience in this manner? Is she not worthy of marriage because she gained her experience in this manner? NO!!!

        Regarding a woman projecting an image of sexuality, that is in the eye of the beholder, unless she is out with nothing on. A woman can go out cover from head to toe and some man will think she is projecting sexuality. Some can be in a non formfitting summer dress i.e. maxi dress and some man will think she is projecting sexuality. Do you want them to dress like the women in the Middle East?

        I am sooooo tired of this double standard mess!!!!!!!!!!

        • Having the sesire for your woman to dress in Middle Eastern attire is such an extreme example that it doens’t have to be addressed. Understand that there are some insecure Islamic men too. I was aware that long term relationships existed.. But to say that it’s not being thrown around , is like saying in the movie “Rocky” that he was “in fact” insecure because he liked a very asexualized character in “Adrianne Balboa”. .. It just doesn’t stick.

      • Well…think about it. If a woman doesn’t ‘project’ sexuality because she isn’t interested in sex, then her husband won’t have to fend off competitors. No matter how demurely dressed, a woman who enjoys physical sexuality is obvious to other men. Her enjoyment of sex makes her more attractive and more of a concern when considering mate retention.

        By contrast, a woman who dislikes sex will not be attractive to other men. It will take much less work to retain an asexual woman as a mate because she’s limited her own options.

        Thus, a man who chooses an asexual woman is choosing to avoid the competition, avoid the hard yards of maintaining himself as the worthiest mate. Thus, he is less secure in his confidence and masculinity than a man who chooses a wife who enjoys sex.

        • You’re trying to use a level of competition to be the sole litmus as to what makes someone secure. Thats like saying ALL MEN who’d like to wife Beyonce up is in FACT “secure”.. Their assurance or comfort with themselves can’t be directly correlated with what you like. I get what you’re saying, but it’s just not a truth…

          • And you appear to be trying to deny evolution and the way human mating works.

            Millions of men fantasize about mating with Beyonce, but only a man with Jay Z credentials has enough confidence to say “I am enough man for this extraordinary woman and– I am willing to try to maintain my credentials to retain her as my wife and mother of only my children.” This is the remarkable thing about extraordinary women. Their high standards can inspire men to greatness.

            If Jay Z was less assured, he’d be paralyzed by jealous thoughts. *See Othello.

            • There’s plenty of Steve Urkels with laura Winslows ouut there. You’re making a conclusion based on stature and excluding x factors that just bring people together without a reasonable rhyme or reason and have a successful relationship regardless of his level of security. There are insecure women with high profile men as well right?! You’re trying to make something a truth that doesn’t have to be true. I’m only addressing “insecurity” not evolution of man.

              • My view is that people can come together for lots of reasons. But when it comes to getting together to mate, people come together with millions of years of subconscious evolutionary prompts. For mating, the ‘x’ factors are far more hard-wired–and subconscious– than most people realize. Nevermind casual relationships, in serious mating courtship, there is always evolutionary and biological rhyme and reason. Always always.

                We could agree to disagree about this except that there are grave political and social consequences if a group does not have an accurate perception of the way that human mating works.

                If you’ve ever read the book, ‘The New Jim Crow’, you know that some scholars believe that the American black community has been systematically hobbled in order to depoliticize them. In my view, the primary method was a system of removing black men from stable family life. There were many strategies employed, such as: Drug laws were used against black men to imprison them and take away their vote. Federal Housing policy prevented them from living with their families (Pruitt Igoe). Mainstream Entertainment and Media stressed the message that black men are probably incapable of fidelity.(This blog post).

                Before you dismiss my cautions, I urge a bit of reading about what happens to the emotional strength of children who grow up without a stable family life, without a father. In short, they struggle to make intimate connections. They struggle with what’s called ‘attachment issues’. It is more difficult for them to form secure mating partnerships because their brains did not learn all the complexities of relating when they were children.

                And that’s the thing. Extraordinary black men who struggle to find the mate and meaning of their lives look for answers from Hollywood movies instead of finding the answer in history and the science of the brain. Fine black men start thinking that their mate problems are down to a desire for polygamy rather than realizing that the political forces which stripped them of their fathers also made their chances of establishing a great family much more difficult.

                So for me, it’s not a willy thing, it’s a wounded psyche thing and it’s political, bloody political. In any population that’s deprived of adequate parental attachment, there will be serious consequences in subsequent generations. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/family-affair/200810/legacy-childhood-attachment-security-in-aging-adults

                So yeah, good husbands and fathers aren’t a ‘fantasy’. Black men make great fathers and husbands. Those jobs are hard work but black men are great at them–especially if they are raised in two parent stable families. Black men who are abandoned by a father have all the work of becoming husbands and fathers–plus the confusion of attachment and abandonment issues playing havoc with their perceptions.

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  26. Don’t mean any ill will or mean intent; but IMO, a BETTER example would be Barack and Michelle…..just my 5 cents…

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  31. Women want to be like men nowadays and sleep around but men and women are not the same. I don’t care what society tells you, we are not equal. When you find me a woman who is attracted to a virgin male, or a woman pimping 5 men on the block I’ll say we’re equal. Although society no longer acknowledges the word “whore” and women never see themselves as such, has the definition changed? Women have always been the sellers and men the buyers. Men have always been the aggressors. Women have been the gate keepers of the goods. Men run into dozens of women who sincerly want to marry, but women rarely run into guys who want to marry them. One of the most precious gifts you can possibly give a man is given away like it’s cheap goods. And because it was given so
    easily, he sees it the same way.

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  35. Women just don’t carry themselves with any respect like they did in the past. They just let any man run up in them now

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  37. I hear the sound of young people, people who don’t know themselves, and people who aren’t comfortable with themselves. A woman’s sexuality is not to be feared, it’s to be discovered. Why do I need two women just to have great sex? What a waste. Nor do I want to control her, or her sexuality. What I want is to know that I can trust her, that’s she’s loyal. Once that’s in place (and a lot of that is self-awareness) we are good to go to the places two people can reach with trust and true intimacy. Really nasty places. You just can’t come back from those places without trust, and knowing you were before you got there. It’s OK it you don’t get this, many won’t

  38. I think it’s a lot more complex than men are willing to admit. For one, men take more time to mature. I’m of a completely different mind set now than when I was in my 20s. Full disclosure, I’m in my early 50s. I was out there and it was fun but life evolves. Secondly, I had a great role model. My parents had a 55 year love affair. My dad married at age 30 and always said the best part of his life started when he married my mother. Thirdly, a lot of s see this as a game. This isn’t a game. This is life. In a game there’s a winner and loser. I don’t want to marry someone I beat in a game or beat me. If you have a girlfriend who you’re thinking of wife-ing, DON’T, unless you’re completely ready for the next phase of your life. That doesn’t make you anything but honest with yourself. You can’t be honest with anyone until you’re honest with yourself. Be ready to evolve or don’t put a ring on it.

    • Very wise Tony, very wise. Women run on a different clock than we do, Most guys don’t get that/don’t care. And most women don’t want us to understand, they want us to see it their way (as the Right way).

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